CSF Flow Results

Hello everyone! It has been a while since my last post, so of course I have more questions! I just got the results back from my csf flow study and everything came back “normal.” While this is very good news, I still have recurring symptoms such as:

  • daily pressure headaches in the base of my skull/neck area
  • numbness and tingling of my left side
  • memory issues (cannot come up with words, having a hard time completing sentences, etc)
  • vision issues in my left eye
    There are more, but I don’t want to bore anyone. Anyway, shouldn’t these symptoms be caused by an issue with the csf flow? Maybe I am just confused, but since the study came back normal I’m not sure how I’m having these symptoms. Also, what do I do about them? It was suggested that I follow up with my neurologist to help with the headaches, but what about the numbness and everything else? I know surgery probably wouldn’t be an option (also, the thought of this kind of surgery completely terrifies me) since everything seems normal (minus the 7mm tonsil malformation) but what would my options be? Should I go back to the neurologist? Sorry for the long post…just not really sure what to do next. Thanks so much for any advice!

I would have the same questions as you in your situation. (What do I do about the symptoms?) It seems that people with a host of symptoms and with evidence of Chiari on imaging are being told “no” to surgery. Which is okay after a rash of unnecessary surgeries.

But, I do not see much evidence that continued searching for medical answers continues. Some questions that you might want to ask is

“What are the effects of pressure on my spinal cord in the foramen magnum where the Chiari malformation is present”

“what about symptoms with pressure on my accessory nerve”

“What about pressure on the vertebral arteries or the spinal arteries”. Those vertebral arteries supply a lot of the brain. What if the blood supply is slowed sometimes? What are the symptoms? What can be done about it?

Might be helpful to research the different components present in the foramen magnum so they make a bit more sense. Be careful in your communication with the doctor.

(I can’t think of the name of the artery but the one that supplies the occiput nerve is in there too. What kind of pain can be attributed to an ischemic nerve?)

There are a variety of different structures in the foramen magnum, not just CSF flowing through the entire hole.

For head pain, I would suggest doing a systematic trigger point workout on yourself. Headaches are rarely attributable to just one thing. So before a doctor gets you on medication or nerve blocks, you might want to try it. Maybe you would not need so much medication with all that side-effects they can potentially bring! T

here is an excellent book called “The Trigger Point Therapy Work Book” by Clair Davies. It is written for an individual to understand and to work on their own body themselves. It might not be very flashy or cost a lot of money, but I have been very pleased with results. Takes time and effort on your part to read the book, understand, and then to do it. You do the ASSESSMENT and the treatment yourself

Motor control or Sahrman based physical therapy may be of some use if you can find a physical therapist skilled in ASSESSING and treating that if muscle co-ordination or stiff vertebra is involved.

Maybe your head pain is more attributed to neural sensitivity or poor neurodynamics? There are ways to ASSESS that too. I guess what I am saying is that your medical team needs to figure out the cause of your head pain not just start to throw treatment at it. Often the ASSESSMENT part is weak!

With you vision, a team of an optometrist and a vision therapist trained in concussion or brain injured clients with vision problems could ASSESS your vision and give treatment options. If the optometrist thinks a opthamologist or neuro-opthamologist is more suited they could recommend that too. Of, course your neurologist may have an opinion on your eye as well.

The investigative journey can be long. Good luck

We Chiarians hear about great new treatments available. I would very much like to hear about them. An alternative to surgery would be great.

I would see a Neurologist. You have symptoms that are troublesome for you. I did everything I could to avoid surgery as I was so terrified and I had heard results are not so great most the time. I had complete blockage of CSF flow and 2 Syrinx in my spine so my options were that I have surgery or end up in very bad shape in short order. Since your images show adequate flow, I would seek out a competent Neurologist that is familiar with Chiari to see if they can help put an action plan together for you to help with your symptoms. I did have success with acupuncture and sacro-cranial massage prior to surgery in helping alleviate symptoms I was experiencing. I had my surgery Oct 24 and am now symptom free. My syrinx are resolved and the residual nerve damage from them is minimal. Your numbness could be from other things. My husband’s left side goes numb and tingles. He had a nerve study done and found out he has an impinged nerve in his rotator cuff that is creating all of that.

CSF flow the least Likely reason for these problems. Increased compliance of the dural sac especially in those with generous lumbar dural sacs and symptoms of disorders of connective tissue matrix is usually the reason. That’s not say that in rare instances reduced CSF flow can’t be or isn’t a cause of Increased compliance of the dural sac, it just doesn’t happen as often as “Chiari Surgeons” would like. Without clear evidence done in several postures (laying standing etc) its almost criminal to assume its because of a Chiari (actually not almost a number of surgeons have been removed from practice and several actually prosecuted after performing surgery with no, incomplete, or manufactured (Cine-MRI) evidence. The neurologist can possible help but a good physical therapist and muscle/stability development will do more to reduce the compliance of the dural sack. In a number of cases, the cause has been found to be “life style” having an effect on blood flow especially in the cervical areas Recent studies have suggested that CSF flow along the cranial nerves and spinal nerve roots allow it into the lymphatic channels; this flow may play a substantial role in CSF reabsorbtion, in particular in the neonate, in which arachnoid granulations are sparsely distributed. The flow of CSF to the nasal submucosal lymphatic channels through the cribriform plate seems to be especially important. Again life style is a major factor. (high cholesterol, obesity, lack of aerobic levels of exercise) Its not the ONLY factor by any means just one that is most easily controlled.

This recent study has confirmed what many have long believed and in no small part blows the lid off Chiari Decomperssion surgery for most.

Along the same lines benign intracranial hypertension (BIH) or pseudotumor cerebri (PTC) which has similar symptoms acts much the same way. The number of these cases in which the condition has been “cured” by improved diet, statins, ace inhibitors, weight loss, muscle strengthening/stabelization, dramatically increase fluid intake of plain WATER, has been overwhelming.

There may a simple way to test all this BTW @Mom2Boys its not 100% by any means and if it works will make the situation worse if you try it long term But for six bucks its worth a try… Pick up a cervical collar and see if wearing it a FEW days makes a difference. if it does you will know stabilization from exercise/PT WILL work. if doesn’t, it means nothing…

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Wow, thank you so much! I really appreciate you taking the time to provide so much information! I agree that assessment is something that seems to take a backseat sometimes. As patients we are impatient and we just want answers, and doctors don’t always have the time or desire to really do much searching for answers. At least that has been my experience. Now is a good time for me to step back and really research and control what I can control, I think. I’m sure I’ll be amazed by what I find. Thank you again for everything!

Wow, I am so glad you are now symptom free! How wonderful! It is so amazing to hear stories of what has helped people and how they went about getting help. Thank you so much for sharing with me, and giving your advice. I really appreciate it! I have to admit, I was secretly almost hoping that there was a blockage so that there would be a direction for “treatment.” That might sound silly, but after 10 years of this I am pretty ready to just be done with it. I do look forward to finding a Dr who is familiar with Chiari. I feel like the doctors I have seen maybe aren’t as comfortable or able to answer my questions. The search continues! Thank you again!

Thank you so much for the information! It’s incredible to think that doctors are performing surgeries (and such serious surgeries) unnecessarily. I am in the process of changing quite a bit when it comes to diet and exercise. I’m hoping that with weight loss and just general fitness I may be able to decrease my symptoms. At the very least, I’m sure I’ll be able to handle everything better. It seems like we are all so eager to “fix” what is going on and we get impatient when we can’t find a solution quickly. As I said in a comment above, after 10 years of dealing with this I am completely guilty of being impatient and ready for a “fix.” I look forward to finding people who can help with the symptoms and hopefully be able to figure out what is causing the symptoms. Thank you so much again!

Oh! What a good idea! I’ll definitely try that. Thank you for the suggestion!

I was originally diagnosed with a connective tissue/auto immune disorder 9 years ago. I ate a very strict AIP diet, exercised and am not overweight, etc. I lived and continue to live a very active healthy lifestyle. My issues came and went -flares. I took no pharmeceuticals to treat my “auto-immune” disorder. The Neurosurgeon I did see is one of the most respected Surgeons west of the Mississippi. She also does brain remapping. Dr, Michelle Chowdhary is pretty incredible. She didn’t even shave my hair. I woke up with a bunch of these tiny tiny braids all over the back of my head to separate my hair. She also used my own scalp for my durapatch. I researched like crazy to find someone that could deal with the Chiari. It was discovered after a 21 day headache after I flew from Fl to Washington a year ago. They have since removed the auto immune diagnosis from my medical charts. All those symptoms are gone. In fact as soon as I woke from surgery I could feel a difference and noticed the pressure was completely resolved. I am almost 5 months out and feel better than I have in years. Surgery isn’t for everyone, and I got several opinions and saw more than one Dr before I came to a decision. My decision was in large part due to the 2 syrinx and the fact that all I wanted was for someone to actually break my back to relieve the pressure. I had this weird bubble/soft spot growing mid spine and my spine was going crooked there. That spot is gone as is the crook in my spine. I heard so many horror stories and my surgeon was very honest and told me that the success rate is about 40%, but felt my case would see improvement. She was correct. She told me any nerve damage would likely not reverse, and that I could see symptoms again, but she feels pretty confident I won’t. There is no cure, only methods to try to provide relief from symptoms. One of the issues I find is that people with Chiari seem to want to frighten others and seem to be such naysayers, etc. We each have our own experiences and paths to walk and I think it important to hear from successes too.

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Oh my, I’m so sorry I haven’t replied until now. For some reason I didn’t get notified of your comment. Anyway, you’re right about there not being as many positive stories as there should be. Even a little bit of a positive spin can be so helpful! Im so happy that surgery helped so much for you. It sounds like you found a fantastic neurosurgeon (yay for not having to shave any hair!) which seems to be pretty tricky to find. Thank you so much for the comment and the positivity. :slight_smile:

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who do you see for a nerve study?

My husband started with an Orthopedic Dr due to a rotator cuff issue. He also saw a Neurologist. He had an EMG and Nerve Conduction Study done.